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Bad HOA board, even worse property manager; both have to go

Posted on Sat, Sep 04, 2010 @ 08:31 AM

I live in a 180 unit HOA in California and my question is what does it take to get rid of your property manager that is never doing there job, and our property is suffering for it. We also have a very inactive board that has members that have been on this board for years and keep getting elected because they have done such bad job of everything no one wants to be on the board with them. 

I was on the board last year they made it hell for me and noting ever got done because they voted against me each time. I am not a board member and will not do it again until this board is gone. I am at witt's end and tried to get help from anywhere on what can we do before our property goes under we have lost some really good owner because they move out can't take it anymore we are gone.

We are getting vendors in from property manager that are not to do business on anyone property.  Everything is a secret from the residents and they fight us all the way.  The HOA board is bad and the property manager is just as bad What can we do?

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If what you say is true, then the Board needs to look for a replacement. But, I would think that you may need to replace the Board as well. Depending on your Bylaws, you may need to recall all of the Board at the same time. You will need to get a group together that would represent a majority to sit on the Board, so you can make the changes you want.  
The PM is supposed to work under the direction of the Board, but if you have a weak Board, the problem may lie there. Only you would be able to determine what the right fix is. If you are serious and have a commitment from a group of people that this is possible, if not you'll be spinning your wheels going nowhere fast.

posted @ Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:40 AM by Richard Perry

First get copy of your bylaws. Second get copy of the California Condominium Act 1998. 
Read the section in bylaws pertaining to Board of Directors. Most bylaws have a limitation on number of consecutive terms a board member may serve. You may find this portion of bylaws has not been adhered to. Also look in the Cakuifornia Condo act for Board of Directors. Beyween these two documents you'll find a fix for your problem.

posted @ Saturday, September 04, 2010 10:10 AM by Charles Adler

We tried to do the same, get rid of the incumbant board members. We got a group together of 4 home owners. After a lot of campaning and talking to other HO, 3 were elected, replacing the old 3. The old board left the condo financials a mess. No reserves were collected, common ares were a mess, don't know where to start. we need to launch assessment to fix concrete etc.

posted @ Saturday, September 04, 2010 10:12 AM by kyle

Unfortunately, this is becoming more and more common in community associations. One reason is because you just don't have enough Homeowners who care to get involved. But in your situation, most likely the fix would be to get a majority of your Homeowners (91), to sign a petition to remove the Board (this is common in most Bylaws). Once you do that, you may then elect a new Board of Directors and in your case a new property manager. I would be willing to help review your bylaws for any other alternatives, just email me.  

posted @ Saturday, September 04, 2010 11:06 AM by Jermaine

We have the same problem in NY. Can't get rid of the board as they bribe influential owners and when anyone talks about running, rumors and lies are spread about that person. They also threaten to sue owners based on lies, etc.

posted @ Sunday, September 05, 2010 3:36 PM by Sandra

Go to this site and find your answer 
www.condolaw.com/public_html/sa107.html - Cached - SimilarDoing it By the Book 
The New York Condo Act is to condominiums what the Business Corporation Law is to co-ops: a set of rules by which the boards and developers must abide in ... 
www.cooperator.com/articles/1238/1/Doing-it.../Page1.html - Cached - Similar

posted @ Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:30 PM by Charles Adler

Why would an owner in California need to know the Condo laws in New York?

posted @ Sunday, September 05, 2010 6:26 PM by Richard

They wouldn't have to but you should learn your states law instead. Almost every state has sucgh an law and most are opretty much the same.

posted @ Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:02 PM by Charles Adler

This is the best web site out there dealing with HOA law in California. http://www.davis-stirling.com/default.aspx

posted @ Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:15 PM by Richard

Hi - HELP -  
Our board is a disaster and most of the owners are afraid of them. The PM only does what the board says. 
We have now still not been able to get a copy of our Master Insurance Policy records. We know the law and the By Laws - they still won't allow us to see a copy. It's been weeks and numerous requests later.  
If anyone can help me in Missouri I would really appreciate knowing who to call. I can't find the right regulatory agency to handle this. To have to hire an attorney again is getting ridiculous. 
Also, the Board just told one owner that the damage done by their contractors to front exterior stairs must be paid for by them. If they don't pay they will fine the owner. We can't do anything to stop them. Most owners are afraid to step in at this point for fear of retribution just like this new owner is getting. Put them in their place before they've unpacked their bags. I have pictures to show the stairs were damaged way before her renovations began. But a nice new lady owner is not a match for this board. And the cost of yet another attorney. 
How in Missouri can we be helped? The Board is totally ignoring the laws of the state.  
Thanks so much. We are the ones still with the mold issues too. But everytime they threaten someone with something ridiculous or they make us beg and beg, just like the Master Insurance Policy, the owners are afraid to step in and incur the Boards rath. And we all know they won't discuss in a Board meeting with us so there is no point in going to a Board meeting. Also, the Insurance request has not been reflected in any Board minutes even though the Board was sent certified letters requesting a review and a copy.  
We need help from a government agency here please. 

posted @ Monday, September 06, 2010 5:09 PM by maryann


posted @ Monday, September 06, 2010 6:40 PM by Charles Adler

Thanks for the Attorney General's office info.  
Here's the amazing thing. When all these mold issues came up the Board hired an attorney who had just come out of the Attorney General's office to put us "down" per se. 
That's why we are at such a standstill. 
Is there any attorney who'd like to do some pro bono work - and make case law in Missouri - we are all organized with info and well documented. I'm a paralegal and one owner is an attorney.  
Again any other place to go that you can think of other than the attorney generals' office. This is just crazy.  
Missouri is called the show me state and there's a real reason, I'm from the East coast.  
I'll try the AG's office in the am, but I think we are going to run into some real prejudice. Any thoughts on how to handle this with them?  

posted @ Monday, September 06, 2010 6:53 PM by maryann

If there is a law school in your vicinity I'd suggest contacting them. To gain experience in the real world a senior student may take on the case. His backuop would be his professors.

posted @ Monday, September 06, 2010 8:44 PM by Charles Adler

In NY it’s even worse, the Attorney General’s office considers these matters to be civil even though owners are threatened with bogus litigation and false rumors by bribed owners – so much so that owners are afraid to run or even to speak up. Apparently, in a year there will be an ombudsman office but corruption is so widespread in condos and coops that they would need hundreds of people to staff it.

posted @ Tuesday, September 07, 2010 5:18 AM by Maddie

TO: Charles Adler - there is another government agency -= the IRS. If you have proof of fraud,kickbacks, etc. this might be your best bet.

posted @ Tuesday, September 07, 2010 5:22 AM by SamG

Stories and claims are fine but FACTS are needed to prove your case.

posted @ Tuesday, September 07, 2010 7:43 AM by Charles Adler

Charles. Thanks, we have total documented backup. As a matter of fact, the water and mold issue is documented along with damages not fixed by pictures on a continuing basis. When the President of the board sends a response to a request to view the master insurance policy that says "verbiage" and has refused to set up an appointment for the requested documents in addition to the policy - it's pretty straightforward. And the Property Manager emails also and says they aren't allowed to provide it to us. What they have put in writing is amazing. Can't imagine why we shouldn't be shown these documents which legally we are entitled to. Just googled the company that issues the master policy and saw that it has a regional office about three blocks from my condo. Am headed there this am. Thanks again.

posted @ Tuesday, September 07, 2010 8:04 AM by maryann

You are legally entitled to obtain copy of all condo vcorrspondence ,audit report and President;s response to the auditors. 
Good plan you are following.Let us know result of visit to insurance carrier.

posted @ Tuesday, September 07, 2010 8:20 AM by Charles Adler

Charles and all, 
Unbelievable. Our Board is still refusing to allow us to make an appointment at the Property Managers to review documents concerning our Master Insurance Policy. The Board President finally acknowledged that there was one "adjunct" document that we could see. She just doesn't get it. She can't pick and choose what business records we can see.  
Next issue - the Board is now going after a contractor who probably did about $200,000 in renovations to a condo for damaging our front steps - that were damaged before they started work. I can't believe they are doing this. There are no pictures or proof except that we all know they've been bad since last winter due to water damage. They also forced this same lady to pay a 1,000 assessment even though her purchase agreement for the condo said there were no upcoming assessments. She's a lovely single lady whose husband died before she moved in. The intimidation is awful and there are only 20 units here. Noone wants to deal with these people.  
I emailed the Board members and the Property Manager this morning and asked the names of the attorney who represent them. Time to file a breach of contract lawsuit against this group siting their errors, acts and omissions - Board Members have failed to provide access to documents pursuant to the law. They have a contractual duty based upon our documents to follow the rule, bylaws and indentures when they bought into the building. I'm going to go into small claims.  
Any thoughts from anyone about this. Possibly by filing and serving them they might get in gear.  

posted @ Tuesday, September 14, 2010 9:29 AM by maryann

I would suggest you first obtain a copy of your state's lawws relating to Condominiums. Usually if you p[ut "State name Condominium Act" into your browser you'll find that document.Your attorney general is the enforcement agency. 
In most states a unit owner is entitled to have access to all condominium documents and financial records. The only exception are matters concerning personnel matters. Your board is operating unlawfully when they deny access.The Condo lawyer is paid by your Council of unit owners but his main responsibilioty is to the Board of Directors and not to the individual unit iowner.

posted @ Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:30 AM by Charles Adler

Thanks Charles. Yes, to all of the above and yes, we all know that. The Board just won't budge. We are only asking for business records. Will pull all the documents from the last two months together and am heading to AG's office, the Master Insurance Company office, the mortgage holders of the three Board members. Have asked in an email to all of them who the current attorney is (they've gone thru about 5 so far). Also, small claims court and Washington U Law school. Wish all the men would agree to be on the board, we'd not have these petty women issues. Thanks again.

posted @ Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:34 AM by maryann

Charles, forgot to say, we've basically got the ByLaws and Indentures and MO law memorized at this time. So we know the law cold. Have all organized in about a 6 " file to date by date and subject. Emails included. It's just such a waste of our time. My insurance agent can't believe this is even happening. Our property manager can't make any decisions unless told to do so by the Board from what we can see. When this Board took our insurance and moved it to one of the Board members friends who dropped our cost by about 10,000 it sent up red flags two years ago and we are still trying to figure it out. This Board at that time took out high D & O insurance for the past two years, before that the prior boards didn't even have it.

posted @ Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:38 AM by maryann

Your D&) insurance is usually includwed in your master policy. Much cheaper than gbetting two separate policies. I think your next step is to file a formal documented complaint with your Attorney General's Office. You might also talk to your District Attorney. Warn the board president you are goping to take those steps.

posted @ Tuesday, September 14, 2010 1:20 PM by Charles Adler

Thanks again. Got an email from the attorney who represented the property management company telling me he does not represent them. 
Got an email from the property management company later today saying he does represent them. 
Comedy of errors here. Went to the court house and go the names of the Title Company and the mortgage company who hold the mortgages on the Boards condos. Two of the three have a mortgage. The third paid off hers last year. The two that have mortgages have done nothing ever to their condos. The third board member's condo is probably worth about 700,000 in this market. Calamity of errors waiting to happen. If D & O is covered in our insurance that means our actual coverage is even lower than i thought. Can't believe that we can go from about 30,000 with no D & to 17,000 with D & O and not have lost some coverage. We shall see. In my letter certified letter to all this week I let them know I was notifying the proper authorities and agencies. Even the BBB should be notified as to this management company.

posted @ Tuesday, September 14, 2010 4:46 PM by Maryann Manion

If you had access to the files the management company is supposed to maintain you could easily settle the question of the lawyers affiliation. If the Condo assn is paying him he must be their lawyer-if not who is their attorney. Those same files should reveal that. Is the management company properly licensed and bonded??

posted @ Tuesday, September 14, 2010 5:07 PM by Charles Adler

Hi Charles. If the checks from the property managers office to the attorney are on from the association bank account - then he represents the owners correct? But can the Board hire him to prosecute one of the owners? The past President said the attorney represented the Board but we are paying for it. Thanks -

posted @ Tuesday, May 03, 2011 6:02 PM by mary

I live in a homeowner's assocation in south Florida in a townhouse. The board is ruining the place and our property values are declining. How do we get rid of this board? We also need to get rid of the managment company. I don't know what to do. I want to sell and get out but no one will want to buy this place. I am stuck here. What can I do?

posted @ Monday, July 25, 2011 8:07 PM by Louis

to fire board members, if you ccr/by laws all permit it or do a re-election of course and then step up to the plate and take over 
maybe this has been answer already but still, complainers are only as good as their actions prseed tham

posted @ Friday, September 16, 2011 10:40 AM by jim

Our problem is 70% of the owners do not live here.We are in Kimberling City,MO We have a terrible board and the Manager tells them what to do. And everone is afraid of them...We have probably 170 owners...We would appreciate any help in this area... Paul

posted @ Wednesday, November 09, 2011 4:13 PM by Paul

As the Secretary of my Homeowner Association in Fort Collins, it’s sometimes a challenge trying to maintain work, family and my HOA duties . However, when I discovered Association Online all of that changed. No need to worry about piles of paperwork, their software is quite easy to use and all our HOA documents are stored and managed online. This allows our Board of Directors to operate in a more effective way. You should check them out atwww.associationonline.com or call (970-226-1324). I highly recommend them for all Homeowner Association needs. 

posted @ Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:21 PM by Joe Delagdo

At our wits end! We have lived in our townhome for 12 years. As a property manager for the State of Iowa, I managed our property for 5 1/2 years until a new builder bought the remaining lots and built 6-8 homes and remains in control of the HOA. He never keeps anyone informed of what is going on and with holds all information that is requested of him, such as financial statements, contracts etc. The property continues to go down hill as he does little to maintain the property. What can we do to get him out or to cooperate with us. We have tried everything possible and he just does not care. He also has 6 of the units that he owns and uses as rental property. About 16 lots are still available and have been since the beginning that have remained vacant and not developed. We have tried other forms of government offices, but no one seems to want to help. We are not going to pay for a lawyer out of our pocket for everyone else to get satisfaction. This is our retirement home and we are here to stay. HELP!!!!!!

posted @ Tuesday, September 09, 2014 11:30 AM by Norman & Barbara Foster

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