Condo Association Management Blog

yes of course. It's a free country and you are free to do as you please. Just remember, the judge will freely throw out the recordings in any litigation with out signed consent and the recorded persons are free to sue because you violated their expectation of privacy. As long as you use them only for your own voyeristic purposes and nobodyy ever hears them, you should be fine. 
 
Darron 
 
Assessment Recovery

In Florida, you have the right to tape record meetings subject to reasonable rules adopted by the board. If the board hasn't adopted any rules, you are free to setup your camera however you please but should not interfere with the meeting. 
 
Condo Board meetings are a form of public meeting in a public place, and I'm not sure why Darron would say that Board members have the expectation of privacy.

I would check with an attorney, but I do not believe that you can legally in Michigan record others without their consent. It would not hold up in a court, and I would be concerned with the possibility of legal action. 
 
However, if you let them know at the meeting that you plan to record it for your records, it may encourage better behavior. I also would have an attorney send a letter (get a real estate attorney) on having access to records. Legally, they must allow you access. They can assess you reasonable charges for copies, and you can be restricted to business hours, but they are the Association's records. Any association member is entitled to see the records, unless it is a legal action in process or a collection matter, which may be sensitive.

Why do it in secret? Set up a video camera and start taping all the board meetings. If you have the initiative then upload it on YouTube or create your own website so others in the community who don't have the time to see the meetings can see what goes on. 
 
Vic

Joyce is relating a Florida answer to a Michigan standard. The standards in Florida and Michigan are not the same. In Florida, board meetings must operate under a "sunshine law". In Michigan, there is no such requirement. In fact, legally, the board may determine that the meetings are not open to the membership. The only meeting required to be open to the membership is the annual meeting of members and any meeting called by the board for the membership or one petitioned by the membership under the documents.  
 
However, in Michigan the Condominium Act gives the board certain obligations, and one is reasonable access to association records.

Just a word of caution. Check with your states laws on recording of conversations. Some states require only single party consent while others require 2 or more or all parties to be notified. It could also be important for you to make the "notice" a part of the recordings in case you ever needed them for any legal purpose.  
 
 
 
Just be careful you don't unintentially create problems for yourself or the association by posting or publishing something that may have all mannner of liability, slander or other actionable behaviors, admissions, accusations, etc.  
 
 
 

Sorry all, my comment was in jest. I thought that was self evident but it must not have been. 
 
To be clear, secretly recording a meeting is not a wise idea because you cannot use the recordings for anything other than your own enjoyment. In a non-public meeting in a non-public location, any one would have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Recording in such an environment could be a cause of action. Further, without consent, you cannot use the recording in a legal proceeding. 
 
Darron Hay 
 
Assessment Recovery

I have a condo in Illinois and another in Florida. I have recorded meetings at both places. In fact I've had the recorder on the table where the board sits so that I can get a better recording. 
 
No problem. I know I am allowed to record in Florida, I don't know about Illinois, but nothing was said, so it must be ok.

Laws vary from state to state. Following is the MI wiretapping law: 
 
 
 
Michigan Wiretapping Law 
 
Michigan law makes it a crime to "use[] any device to eavesdrop upon [a] conversation without the consent of all parties." Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539c. This looks like an "all party consent" law, but one Michigan Court has ruled that a participant in a private conversation may record it without violating the statute because the statutory term "eavesdrop" refers only to overhearing or recording the private conversations of others. See Sullivan v. Gray, 342 N.W. 2d 58, 60-61 (Mich. Ct. App. 1982). The Michigan Supreme Court has not yet ruled on this question, so it is not clear whether you may record a conversation or phone call if you are a party to it. But, if you plan on recording a conversation to which you are not a party, you must get the consent of all parties to that conversation. In addition, if you intend to record conversations involving people located in more than one state, you should play it safe and get the consent of all parties.  
 
 
 

Mary your talking about private conversation. The condo board meeting is an open meeting for all owners of the Association. Since it is an open meeting then the owners should be able to openly record the meeting regardless of whether the board disagrees. I have done this with my board and I when I was on the the board and I would have no problem if someone wanted to record the meeting. 
 
Victor

Yes. Record it. But why in secret? What are you ashamed of? Why be sneaky? Check with a lawyer first. From the tone of your letter it sounds as though you don't know how to get along with your board.  
 
What do you say or do that makes six people "yell" at you? Six people?  
 
Look into your own methods and manner of asking questions. You may be entitled to answers, but if you ask in a confrontational manner you are going to get a different result than if you ask in a business like manner. If you ask a question be careful that you wait until the person answering has finished before jumping in at him or her.  
 
Don't be sarcastic. Try to ask as though you truly want to understand; not as though you are a prosecutor playing "Gotcha" with a defendant.

Might I suggest in spending a few of your own dollars to send anything to the BOD by certified mail. You may then in your letter state that you will not take any phone calls, but you will accep a reply by certified letter. 
 
I have always used this way,and then you will always have record to keep for yourself. 
 
Roberts rules applies in a meeting, and they must apply when a BOD responds back to you. 
 
Furthermore if your BOD have nothing to hide, then they should give you what you want, even at a small charge to see these bills. 
 
MY PAST BOD'rs had much to hide and they are still hiding B.S. Maybe the first of the year things will get straightened out after a long 9 month wait. 
 
If that would have been me I would not have waited for another meeting to be called a liar, I would have been at the Madj yesterday sending a return to her warning her/him if this happens again I will be pressing charges. Protect yourself and dock everything 
 
"I am still trying to keep Smiling"

Just want you to now how I am with the board and how they treat the whole association. 85% of our residents are widows 65 and older. We have no reserve in our budget. Association is responsible for all common areas. We are told that we need to pay for any repairs even on common elements. My first board meeting I asked if I could put a swing and gazebo in my limited common area. I was told no to the gazebo. When aI asked why, I was told because they can say no and if I don't like it sue them. When I asked for repairs to be done on the outside of my unit I was told I will have to wait a year, than two years, and than flat out no. I was told they do not have the money because of a bad storm this year. The storm cost 10 thousand that insurance did not cover. We are suppose to have a 10% 
 
reserve. It took me 5 emails to try to see the books. I was given some copies of bills. Not the books. When I went to the meeting to see from the board if I could see the books, I was told hat the management is busy. I said I would wait for a good time for the management to show me. Than the fireworks hit. I have been to the annual meeting and budgt meeting where they refuse to do work for the residents. Most resident quit coming to the meetings years ago. The board bullies everyone not just me. So it had nothing to do with how I treat the board. I would record in secert becase there are people like James Knox that can't believe that this is happining without provoking them.

I agree with Victor. If the board in Illinois thought there was a law against recording the meeting, they would have asked me to turn it off and remove it from their table. I know for a fact it is allowed in Florida. It's in our by-laws and Florida's Condo Laws.

I live in FL and I am on the board of directors, another member and I have been sworn at called SOB and F.... control freak. 
 
A news letter was sent to the community that we a re un cooperative wne in fact hard to get things done, recently they chaged the locks to the HOA building so we could not have a meeting. It waas held outside in 98 heat and I am told we were recording by the other board members unknow to any one. How can we stop these bullies? We are both widows so they know no one will interfer. Thank for any help.

In Florida you can openly record any public meetings.  
 
Call the Board of Professional and Business Relations for further advice. You can also email the Ombudsman.  
Ft. Lauderdale Office: 
Office of the Condominium Ombudsman 
1400 W. Commercial Boulevard, Suite 185-P  
Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33309-3791 
Phone: 954.202.3234 
FAX: 954.202.3237 
 
Ombudsman@dbpr.state.fl.us