Condo Association Management Blog

Its definitely unfair of the board to allow you to pay for the doors and then later charge you to fix other doors. 
 
Did you talk to people on the board about this? If so what did they say?

I live in SC but am having a problem with overcharging by my HOA too. And they AGREE with me. I'm told that the boards can do anything they want. But if anyone else was stealing from me I could call the police and have them arrested. Why have the states decided not to get involved when people are being ripped off by these so called "boards"? So don't expect fairness.

Marilyn! Board can't do anything they want unless the people of the community allow them to do what ever they want!  
 
If most of the owners work together as a team with a goal they can make things happen in the community! If you sit meekly by and let things happen then you have become sheep! 
 
Victor

Thank you all for your comments! 
 
I've been told by property manager that there are 8 owners who have installed the new doors already. 
When I asked him to provide me the list of the names of these owners, he refused, justifying by fact that he cannot provide this sensitive information. 
He said that even the president of the board has the new doors but she voted for equal assessment charge. 
So now we trying to identify the owners with the new patio doors by ourselves.

Victor, 
 
Three points 1) I would have thought you were entitled to know who fitted new doors, if you cannot establish this yourself,as such information is part of the Condo records. 
2) Do your docs say that assements are to applied equally unless they relate to work of benefit to a single group, in this case those receiving new doors? 3) In my view equity demands that owners who fitted new doors be reimbursed for the costs incurred up to the cost of fitting a new door in the other units. 
Your issue seems so reasonable that I am surprised the Board have not responded more positively. Have another go - good luck 

This sounds similar to something I have had to fight in my association. Unfortunately, my situation seems much worse as the board by all appearances has violated multiple state laws and legal document requirements. 
 
 
 
Your condo is in a different state but perhaps the below outline will help you see if you have similar laws and association legal documents. 
 
 
 
In my case the State of New Hampshire Condominium Act states that windows and doors are the owners responsibility unless otherwise specified in the condo association legal documents. 
 
 
 
See www.wvnorthface.info/nf/pg.php?&page_name=bylaws for the exact quote from both the state law and my association legal documents. Again, this is for reference, yours may be different. 
 
 
 
As Far as what can be done assuming your state laws and association legal documents confirm your position): 
 
 
 
1. Check your state laws and your association records to see what they say about the doors. I know you describe the doors as being common elements but the law and association legal documents may say something different and that they are the owner's responsibility. Patio doors certainly sound like individual onner property even if they access a limited common area. 
 
2. Get information about the board's fiduciary responsibilities. Fiduciary law requires that all owners are treated equally. The board is responsible for making sure that happens. I have some examples of this at www.wvnorthface.info/nf/pg.php?&page_name=fiduciary and the very first example is taken from a New York Website . The examples at this link also show that there can be severe penalties for the board not abiding by their fiduciary responsibilities. Boards can be held responsible for 'self dealing' if they personally benefit from their decisions. Self dealing can have very serious consequences. 
 
3. Inform the board of the above and try to get it worked out. 
 
4. If you are successful in the above get it in writing. If you are not successful with the above send a certified, return receipt, letter to the board outlining the problem and what you have done to try to get it corrected. 
 
5. Some states have Condo ombudsman or other governmental bodies to assist you with disputes. See nysenate.gov/news/co-opcondo-ombudsman-bill-making-its-way-through-state-senate for a bill that was proposed. I do not know the outcome but you should be able to heck into it. 
 
5. Start a campaign to educate other owners what is going on. Speak to them, send them letters, put a Website or page together. Be prepared though for a misinformation campaign by the board since unfortunately they may abuse their position of power. 
 
5. If all the above fails, bring a legal action if warranted. 
 
 
 
I have found some limited success with pressuring my board with with doing many of the above things. Perhaps the biggest stick I have used so far is getting the facts and truth out to other owners.  
 
 
 
Keep in mind you have a right to access association records thought this is another thing I have had to fight my board on 
 
 
 
Good luck.

In our condo complex some owners replaced their plumbing (at their own expense), which is considered a limited common element in our complex. We got written statements from the Board that we would not have to pay for the plumbing of the complex should they decided to re-plumb the whole complex. I know it's too late for you, but this is a good lesson for us all that any repairs/maintenance to common or limited common areas to not only get permission, but also get it in writing that you will not be responsible for the same repairs/maintenance of others. Ah, one of the joys of condo ownership.

Linda you are so correct! Keep a record of everything.

I had posted the above before I saw the second comment by the original poster that seems to suggest your board president may have benefited unequally from her actions 
 
 
 
I am in the early stages of thinking about putting together a Website with the idea to give a voice to individual condo owners or groups that feel they have been treated unfairly by their board. This would not be a competitor to this site but strictly a place for an owner to get the word out and have a voice. They would have their own Web page, easily created and maintained by them using any Web browser. 
 
 
 
Based on my own experience and what I am seeing on this blog and elsewhere, it appears it is all too common for boards to violate their own state laws and association legal documents, fiduciary responsibilities, and otherwise abuse their power. Boards already have considerable power but their is little counterbalance to that power even if it is wielded inappropriately. For example, they can use owner paid property management staff and owner paid for postage to get their information out even if it is self serving misinformation. They also can unfairly wield their power at meetings. 
 
 
 
A question for the original poster. Would you use a vehicle like the web to get out your message? 
 
 
 
Perhaps this is more appropriated to start a new thread and ask the wider audience then this thread, but I am curious to the original posters feelings to this idea here first.

. Rick, I think that's a wonderful idea. Looking forward to seeing your web site. I have to deal with two condo boards, one in Illinois (permanent home) and Florida (my winter home). The condo board in Illinois is always causing trouble. Tried our Illinois Ombudsman, and after writing two letters and three months later, she told me to call someone in town, who I found out, knows nothing about the big problem we're having

Victor it sounds great to get others behind me and get this done!!! I've been at this for months and refuse to be bullied but others have just given up because its now doing any good.

Marilyn - I am currently the board president for an 88 unit HOA. I only got involved because no one else would and something needed to change. I have worked diligently to try and take the needs and wants of community into consideration when leading our board. I donate at least two hours every day of my personal time to our HOA. However, it is the apathy of our owners that is killing us. Everyone wants to complain but no one wants to help. I have taken the time read our Master Deed, By laws and our state laws and work very hard to be ethical and follow the letter of the law with regard to those documents. The owners must do the same thing. The first place for an owner to start is always with reading the Master Deed and By-laws and then involving their fellow owners to become involved and united on what they want as a community and then bring it to the board and don't give up. A board will run "amuck" without good community involvement and the willingness of owners to volunteer some of their time to help make things happen. If no one is willing to lend a hand and get involved then the ones to blame are the owners. Become a force in your community and help direct the board as to the wishes of the majority. 
 
 
 
Good luck! 
 
Katherine

Thank you all for your wonderful comments. 
 
Answering to you question, Rick, I would love to use web to get the message out, the only problem with our condominium owners is that the median age of the owners is approximately 65 years. Most of them do not use computers at all. 
All communication with Board and Property Managers are through old fashioned letters and faxes. 
 
My feeling is that the Property Manager is trying to push his own agenda to the board. 
 
Last Annual Owner's Meeting we agreed that we MUST allocate more resources to reserve fund. The fund is near the zero line - that fact was the major reason for this special assessment. 
 
 
 

Thanks Katherine but I did run for the Board but they changed the required board members from 5 to 3. What really concerns me is the president of out board telling me its none of my business or I'm out of line. It bothers me because it has the appearance of wrongdoing. And our management company says its up to the board. I pointed out the section in the bylaws backing up my comments and asking for an audit which is required. So I'm trying. I've only lived here a couple of years and it seems my neighbors are just tired.

Marilyn what actions did you take to wake up the board? You can go to meetings and talk to the board until your blue in the face but you need more than talk to win this battle. In NJ we can create a petition to remove the board with 2/3 of the owners votes.  
 
What state are you in?

We live in a carriage home (condo) in Fort Myers, Florida. Our community is a mixture of condos and single family homes. There are a total of 552 doors of which 200 are condos, and the rest are made up of estate homes and villa homes. Up to this point (the past seven years) there were separate associations for the condos, villa homes, and estate homes. Besides there is a community association govern by HOA rules while the condos are Condo rules. We received an e-mail stating from the Board of Directors stating that all of the boards have voted to merge all of Homeowner's and Condo associations into one association. First of all is this legal? We are under the understanding that condos and single family homes operate under different rules, HOA and Condo rules. This a community with a private golf course which was turned over to the membership last July. Membership IS NOT MANDATORY to live here BUT rumors are flying that the members what to make it a bundled golf community. All of the different assn. are placing golf members on the different boards. We (community) feel that this latest attempt to consoildate is a further move to control the community. Shouldn't there be a community vote first to consolidate the different associations and second, to have total membership vote to change it to a bundle golf communty?

Rick, 
 
You have hit the nail on the head. Believe it or not my association wished to update the docs, one of the amendments involved changing the the voting majority required to incur major expenditure. The amendment failed at the annual meeting - no problem the Directors simply called a Board Meeting two weeks later and amended the votes recorded - my vote was changed from 'no' to 'yes'. 
As a result owners set up their own web-site which the Board refuses to recognize by refusing to address the issues and suggestions raised. 
The problem is that taking formal action involves costs on both sides which the owners have to pay. 
 
What is needed to a National Condo/HO Association with membership open to owners for an annual sunscription. Boards might sit up and take notice if such an Association took up VALID issues with them. 
 
Good luck - you my support 

JoAnne, 
Florida Condo Associations are governed by FL St 718 and HOA by Fl St 720. As I understand your position, you have various Associations, a mixture of Condos and HOAs (neighborhood associations) with an overall Master Association. I assume the latter is a not for profit corporation which owns the golf course, club house and common areas and all owners are members of the Master Association i.e. shared ownership but are not required to be members of the golf club. 
I cannot see that it would be desirable or feasible to dispense with the neighborhood associations and merege them into one association as their requirements differ.Condos have many common areas which have to be funded - repainting, cleaning etc whcih does not apply to single family homes. 
My guess is that there is some confusion concerning the Board's intentions. 
It would not be possible or, in my view legal, to force any owner to become a golf member, and share the expense of maintaining the course, as is implied by a 'bundled community'. It would breach the owners vested rights i.e. they did not purchased a property on this basis, this right cannot be altered without each individual owner's agreement. 
 

JoAnne-The state of Florioda has distinct laws which apply to condominiums nsd a different set that apply to HOAs. Copnsidering those laws I do not follow how the marriage defined in the original post on this subject could be classified as legal.

, Why is it, when we comment on our boards not doing the right thing, it is turned around and blamed on the owners for not being active. Katherine stated," If no one is willing to lend a hand and get involved then the ones to blame are the owners". I've been there and done that. After 11 years of fighting the board, being on the board, where I listened to them tell widows and seniors on fixed incomes, that they would have to go to management,if the owners didn't go along with what ever the board presented, and that would mean their monthly fees would double. I couldn't take anymore so I resigned. 
 
Don't tell us we don't do anything to change things, because some of us do. After years of the same, outside of moving out, which I have thought of dong many time, but at my age that is not a choice any more, what more can we do? The sad thing is the board are owners too. They complained at one time, and now that they are on the board, they are no different than the last board. 
 
If I knew then what I know now, no condo living for me.

As a member of the Assoc. you have the right to view correspondence,Letters of Special permission and Financial Statements. Request it in writing and mail it Certified Return Receipt Requested. 
 
The Board or Management Co. does not have the right to do equal assessments if those letter exist. It does not matter if The Pres. voted for it, all capital expenditures have to go out for a vote, she or he is not the deciding factor.

I have been the board president and now the manager of a 48 unit condo community where I live. I think everyone needs to understand the workings of the board. They have to priorize work, but some owners don't want to wait. Their common charges or an assessment is something they agreed to pay, for the upkeep of common areas, when they purchased. Nowhere does it say "unless I purchased my own before you did". In my community upper units have a deck that we replaced and all paid even though half have no deck. Lower units have garage doors that were replaced and all paid. It really is no different. The people who changed their door did so for their own benefit and should enjoy it. However they should not expect a credit or break from their obligations because they wanted what they wanted, when they wanted it.

Claudina - I understand you point, but in our particular case the same element supposed to be replaced - patio doors. 
What is the logical reason to charge this assessment equally to all owners when almost third of them have already new patio doors. 
By charging same amount from all owners, these with new doors will subsidize doors for the others, while condominium did not participate in costs sharing while they were replacing their doors.

Sorry for the typo - I meant Claudia

Claudia what was the price to replace the garage doors and what was the price to pay for the decks? Were they over equal value? 
 
I would think the deck would cost more which means the people who got the deck paid more than the people who got the garage door. Which is an unfair cost. It doesn't matter if it was unfair by $10.00. You should count everything to the penny. Most people won't complain but this is how a mountain can become a mole hill. It only takes one determined owner complain and get the ball rolling. 
 
Victor

Most state condominium acts dictate that any assessment must apply to all members of the council of unit owners and that the proportional share paid by each is usually determined by size of unit. It is illegal to credit a unit owner who proceeded with an upgrade on his own and exempt him from paying an association assessment for similar renovation.

I know everybody has a percentage of ownership which agrees with the kind of unit the owner owns and has to be paid as monthly condo fees which at the same time should be used to pay Operating Expenses and minor repairs of items of the Condo and to separate funds for our Reserve Fund that should be used to pay for repairs or changes of mayor components ( new elevators, roof, structural work) called COMMON ELEMENTS because will benefit to all unit owners and that they are necessary because if they are not repaired or changed will affect the wellbeing or will affect the safety or health of all the owners.  
 
 
 
In my case the board association has prepared everything in order to be covered legally to change the windows and sliding doors and to impose Special Assessment to all unit owners that have and do not have sliding doors. I believe this is unfair because no everybody has sliding doors and at least 30% do not want to change their windows because they are in perfect condition and cannot afford it.  
 
Balconies, Sliding doors and windows are considered LIMITED COMMON ELEMENTS BY D. of Columbia Condominium Act, many Association boards AND OUR ASSOCIACION BYLAWS. Nevertheless they were able to change our by-laws with their main purpose which is to change all the windows and sliding doors of the building. Our by- laws now says that Limited common elements expenses should be considered as common expense. In other words they want to change all the windows and sliding doors (limited Common Elements) and consider the expenses as common expense BUT at the same time IMPOSE AN SPECIAL ASSESSMENT TO CHANGE THE WINDOWS ANS SLIDING DOORS that are Limited Common Elements. Each balcony, windows and sliding doors are Limited Common Elements because they benefit directly to some owners. Everybody does not have balconies and sliding doors. Now, after the change of the bylaws they want to consider the change of our windows and sliding doors as common expense and to be paid with funds that will come from a Special Assessment. All of these elements (balconies, windows and sliding doors are LIMITED COMMON ELEMENTS because only certain owners are benefited directly; in consequence, since I do not have these elements, I believe that I should not pay for special assessment because it will not benefit me directly like the other owners. I have to continue to pay my condo fees only in the percentage assigned to me since the beginning the date I purchased my condo.  
 
Am I corrected? Can somebody tell me the difference between common elements and limited common elements? What is suppose the Special Assessments cover and the regular or monthly assessments or so called condo fees and why does exist in the Condominium Act of the District of Columbia and all the Condominiums by- laws these separation and definition of these Elements? What is the purpose of separating Common Elements from Limited Common Elements? I will appreciate it very much if somebody can help me with an answer and a comment. I am planning to take this association to court because I believe this is not fair. Four years ago I had to pay $8,000.00 dollars for their repairs of their terraces project which was then changed from Terrace Project to Terrace and Façade Project and now they want me to pay $9,000. 00 dollars cash at the end of this month for their windows and sliding doors. 
 

The boiard decision to charge all unit owners for replacing their pation doors is a violation of your state condominium act. By giving owners authority to replace doors on their own they gave up the possibility of conducting an associastion project because there is no way to return the moneys spent by those owners and then stgarting the process over again as a condominium project. Download a copy of your state Condominium act and refer to the section on assessments. Quote that provision of your state law to them. The only legal way for the Board to proceed is to establish a voluntary project and get volume discounts but they cannot force all unit owners to participate even those who have not rep[laced their doors may still not join and the board cannot force them to reverse such a decision. The board's improper action authorizing some voluntary replacements is the root cause of the problem they now face.

My condo association in NH is charging me for and assessment involving a number of items including other owner's doors and windows. I told them I was not contesting the siding and other repairs, but that we individually own the doors and windows.The Declaration clearly syas that the owner " shall also be deemed to won the window glass and glass vents of his Unit, the entrance doors and windows frames (to the unfinished exterior surface thereof) any glass doors connecting his Unit with Limited Common Areas reserved for his Unit, and the sinks, bathtubs....etc. Pretty clear, right? I copied the Bylaws, Declaration, and state Condo Act to the lawyer, and the lawyer said that the Condo Association would not mediate, Condo Association fired that lawyer, hired another and the second lawyer wrote that based on the "air space model that the doors and windows are in the unit. He said that basically none of the document applied, because "you need to read the Declaration as an entire document, focusing on its overall intent, not merely select various phrases, which you claim seem to support your position. He also goes on to state that there is a scriver's error so that the word "exterior" is now "interior" When asked for the legal bases of assessing each condo owner for replacing doors and windows, the Condo lawyer said, the association "objects to the question as it seeks a legal opinion, which is the province of the Court". So now the Condo lawyers (both of them) are charging me for all of this, and the Condo Association is of the opinion that they own the doors and windows. By the way I have replaced both on my money in the past.

I am going to Court in NH for a Condo Bylaw dispute about doors and windows. I own by doors and windows according to NH state law as well as the Condo Bylaws and Declaration. It is clear and plain. I do not mind paying for what I owe in the assessment for siding and decks, but not the doors and windows. By the way the Condo did not do the sideint and did not fix my decks. I am going to Court February 29 and I will let you know what happens.