Condo Association Management Blog

This has always been problem for corporations,government and home owners associations. 
 
This is a classic case for owners to change board members on a regular basis. Members should serve no more than 2 terms and have to sit out at least 2 elections to be able to serve again.  
 
Most associations have problems getting owners to serve. If that is the issue in your community, no changes will come about and the owners will get what they deserve. Probably a corrupt or lax board and property manager. Same as government. There are FEW exceptions.  
 
The board members begin to believe they are entitled to perks and wind up getting perks from their vendors or using community money for their own benefit. This happens every day. Most communities don't pay attention or care as long as services continue at an acceptable level and fees aren't increased TOO much. Sad but true.  
 
Encourage change and get active. Complaining doesn't get you much. ACTION is what is needed. 
 
Good luck.

Do you live in the meadows too? 
 
Sounds just like my community. 
 
My president told me how our property manager takes bids. What she does is she gets the scope of the work and then goes to her friends and finds out who they use for work. Then she gives the scope of the work to the people she selects and lets them give a sealed bid. This is so much easier for her and the board than putting the job out there where the public can see it and make a bid. 
 
Wish I could help you more. 

I thought of another solution to your problem. It takes some work. but this is what I did and continue to do.  
 
I discovered that our manager and Board were hiring unlicensed contractors and using selective enforcement of our rules and state statutes. They were also getting rewarded/compensated for their service to the community. This is against the state law and our community rules. This had been going on for many years prior to my purchasing in this community.  
 
I live in Florida. I started filing complaints with The DBPR (state governing agency), county and city building authority. I did get lots of action and activity. Few owners cared and some thought I was a pain even though I showed them the poor workmenship and inflated prices paid for service. Most owners don't care.  
 
Now many owners come up to me and say that they are sure the manager and board are taking less because we are getting more done in the community and the quality is much better. The state and county send inspectors on a regular basis. Few owners are still willing to serve.  
 
If you want to complain, make sure you complain to the right people. All the informaion you need is on line. Easy to access. Get busy.

Hi. Can you tell me what the DBPR is. I live in Missouri and it might help me. We have a disaster on our hands and have now hired an attorney. What we have learned will dishearten all condo owners. Once we are thru with this I will download all the information which should be very, very helpful to everyone. Has anyone ever used an ACLU attorney in the St. Louis area that might be interested in future business?

The DBPR regulates many licensed professions in Florida. Every state has this type of agency but they all have different names. I'm sure you can check who your regulating department is on line. 
 
Regarding the attorney. You want to consult a Real Estate Attorney. They are the experts in this area.I wouldn't consult any other type.

Hi, Thanks Lawrence. We have an excellent re attorney. Will check into the licensing agents here but I know that our Property Managers don't have be certified. Ours is a licensed re person. I got someones mail one day and looking at the envelope it was from a brokerage account. You could not see anything but the name of the individual, address and city and it had the initials of the property managers company on it. We have no idea if this she is a trustee for her brothers money or if ??? If we are pushed into court you know that's the first thing we'll be looking at. Of course the envelope went right to her front door immediately.

Lawrence, 
 
 
 
Every state has different laws,etc. You said every state has an agency such as FL's DBPR. This is grossly inaccurate. Most states do no have an agency to oversee HOAs; only a few do, such as NV and FL. And, I know there are a few counties in MD that have an agency that adjudicates HOA disputes. You also suggested finding a real estate attorney to help with an HOA problem. Here in AZ we have attorney's that specialize in HOA law; these are the best attorney's to hire if they are available in your state. A real estate attorney may know real estate laws but he may not know about HOAs and their intricasies -- a good HOA attorney will know both.

In St. Louis, so far, it appears that all the attorneys that understand the condo statutes, etc. only want to work with the property managers. More money if they are kept on retainer. I had one who wrote a letter for me once and then told me after the fact he actually represented the property manager and wouldn't help us again. The main one belongs to the CAI group which I think is actually a great group - but is there to meet managers, not individuals.

Mary, 
 
 
 
It's the same way here in AZ. There are a few good attorney's that will work with members, but mostly they just want to work with the BOD's. Of course there is more $$$ to be made by working with the BODs as they need attorney assistance with more than just disputes, i.e. collections is a biggie. I think all of the HOA attorneys here are members of CAI. And, although they like us to believe they work for the members, CAI really looks out for attorneys and the service providers; managers, landscapers, etc.

Hi Mary, I totally concur. I forgot to say that the RE attorney we hired had a fabulous reputation. We were willing to pay his $300 hourly fee. The next thing I knew he had passed us off to some new attorney. WHen she called she seemed like a paralegal doing followup. She was lovely. But she had no clue and every question I asked she said she'd have to find out the answer to. She graciously bowed out. I was pretty upset when we then ended up with a litigator who is totally not familiar with this type of situations. However, after I sort of grilled him at the first meeting I reconsidered. The issues are not as much about the real estate end as the facts of the situation. What we are dealing with is a fact based situation and we'll more than likely end up in litigation. Alot of this becomes he said she said. I have been able to fully provide him with facts against all the "purported" allegations and can totally nullify the trumped upy trumped up allegations.  
 
I guess in some ways your attorney is only as good as you are in providing them with the correct info and back up.  
 
Lucky I took so many photos along the line.  
 
If we end up in court we have an excellent attorney who is not a real estate attorney.  
 
Will tell the story when I can. The one thing I will say is that I am so glad we finally hired an attorney so I don't have to think about this anymore. I do not for one second believe the Board thought we'd do that, but we told them we were going to if they pursued frivolous allegations.  
 
So, who do you think should pay the Boards attorney fees??? The 9 owners who trumped up this bullshit or the 3 Board Members themselves who never investigated the eyewitness accounts.  
 
I think it's all about control. But facts are facts.  
 

Mary, 
 
 
 
That's one big problem with HOAs that many members are not able to grasp. Because an HOA is a corp with a board of directors, it's the HOA corp that pays any legal costs incurred by the board. On the other hand, even though the prop. owners are members, their legal costs are paid for by themselves -- not the corp. So, when a member embarks on a legal action against the BOD (the HOA) they, in effect, are suing themselves. The member who is in litigation with the BOD, in a sense, ends up paying both sides of the legal costs. 
 
 
 
I look forward to hearing what your court case is about. And,I certainly hope you do have proof of your allegations, otherwise, even if the board is guilty, you may not win your case. But, I'm sure you know that. <G>

Facts are facts. But the Board can do what it wants based on bylaws and rules and regs. Promise you all that - look at your bylaws. You agree to that when you move in. They can sleep with anyone they want and you as an owner will lose. And try getting these people off the Board. Two of our friends are on the Board and they totally flipped on us. Power positions change people. NO longer friends.  
 
That's why we'll end up in court. Any judge will throw this out. What we've learned is the Board is allowed to make any decision it wants and their attorney has advised them to interpret the bylaws as they see fit. But unreasonable is a very different standard and the reasonable man standard would hold up in court on allegations that are purely made up. Will let you know.  
 
But that's a word of warning. When you buy in - it doesn't matter what you think as an owner - the Board is the final deciding power = right or wrong legally, unless you are willing to take them to court.  
 
The one thing in our favor is that my understanding is if we aren't asking for money in court their d and o insurance won't kick in and it will be another association cost to everyone including us. They upped their d and o. For years they didn't even have it.  
 
More lies to us.

For those who live in California, the state law prohibits board members to hire lawyer with association's fund, if the purpose is to oppose member's demand or suit that requires the board to perform a duty as director. 
 
For example, if member wants to audit the books to obtain proof of embezzlement and fraud,the directors cannot use association's money to hire a lawyer to oppose that suit without the majority of the homeowners approve or authorizing that use of money. 
 
The law is in California Corporations Code sec. 7141.a.4. 
 
 
 
All the 50 states' corporations code is modeled after Delaware Corporations Code. Therefore should have the same law. Look under the index for "Untra vires defense" or "Unauthorized defense" 
 
 
 
Sincerely, 
 
BETP Inc.

Thanks so much betp. I am going to look today.

Mary, 
 
You can also look up from either the Internet, orwww.findlaw.com's "professional" (Upper right corner of that site) 
 
for the california appeals case titled, 
 
Salaway v. Hightower 
 
That case shows that the losing party need not pay attorney fees of the litigation is NOT mainly about ENFORCEMENT OF BYLAWS. 
 
Sincerely, 
 
BETP Inc. 
 
(You can click the blue color BETP Inc. to read my website) 
 
 
 

Hi BETP.  
 
Thanks. Found it thru Versus Law but can't get into the BETP, Inc. Can you give me the actual website. 
 
Good feedback. Just read this case Bitting v. Central Points Condominium Board of Managers.No. 72177 June 30, 1998.  
 
Everyone should read this just to see how attorney fees are handled. The facts are not what we are looking at. Nor can I say they are right or wrong.  
 

Home Owners Association Management provides people with shared neighborhood values, an opportunity to enforce regulations, consistent with overarching statutory constraints, to achieve a community representative of such values.

I have served on the board for 4 years, now. It is true that HO's do not want to "get involved". I don't understand this concept. If you buy into this type of community, then you should be involved in the financial dealings. There was severe mismanagement of funds by our former managing agent. The President and vice-president of our current board were board members for 17 years, with the previous agent. Our finances were in such disarray, which is why I became involved. They both, assume NO responsibilty for what had happened. But due to myself and 3 other new members, we are getting on track. I am sure that they receive "special" treatment from the new managing agent. But we are fighting one battle at a time. We have repaired roofs, decks and siding. Our places were falling apart. But, still, no other HO's have stepped forward to run for a seat on the board. I "fear" I will be on the board for life!

To Gracie: 
 
Congratulations on doing the rught thing. Since things are improving, due to your leadership, I would suggest that you encourage other owners to get on the Board and for you to get off. If a few owners stay on the Board too long, the rest of the owners begin to think of you as their landlord or mother. They need to get involved too. Don't wait 17 years to make your move. Good luck.