Condo Association Management Blog

Robert's Rules of Order have to do with the running of an Association meeting. The Declarations define how the Association will live and use their property. The By-Laws define the structure for running the Association's business, and when conducting business, the framework is with Robert's Rules of Order to ensure that the meetings are properly run. It would be good if all Associations adhered to Robert's Rules when conducting a meeting; however, most officers do not read it, so they don't know how to abide by rules intended to keep a meeting on track, be considerate of those who have the floor, and the length of time discussion will take place on a certain agenda item, etc.

You are quite correct. Several states have recognized the need for board membeers to be conversant with the abbreviated Roberts Rules. In those states a newly elected member of the board has 90 days to get Roberts training and then has to submit an affidavit attesting to that . But that is insufficient-A meeting run under Roverts is defined as a deliberative assembly. That simply means that the attendees participate in all actions and discussions. For example it is the attendees who approve the agenda. The President usually presents an agenda but the attendees are free to modify,eliminate or add to it by their majority vote. To make the meeting run smoothly the attendeesn also need a bit iof trainin g in Roberts so they can properly particioatr.

Our condominium had FHA approval and apparently it lapsed in July. How do we get such approval, what is the process, costs and is it necessary? 
 
 
 

The order is state law, declaration, bylaws, rules and regulations of the Association and then Robert's Rules of Order - meaning that if there is a conflict between what state law says and your declaration says, you go with what state law mandates, if the bylaws conflict with the declaration you go with what the declaration says. An example is that our declaration says that 18% interest is to be charged, but state law allows a maximum of 12%, so we had to charge the 12%. One other level to consider is that if an item is not addressed in any of the above you go with what has usually been done.

Linda and Scott are spot on...the Federal laws, state statutes and then your association's governing documents dictate who was granted the authority to run your association legally and how it is to be run legally. The Roberts Rules is not a legally binding document..it is a guideline for running your meetings, how to vote properly etc. Written into this is a section for small deliberative groups, like small boards, where you are allowed to cut out a lot of the formal procedures that can be overwhelming to volunteers. Most Bylaws state that Roberts Rules are to be used the standard for running meetings and making decisions.

I think there is some confusion here. Robert's Rules is just related to the ORDER of a meeting. It doesn't contain any of the rules and regulations found in an Association's Declarations because it's not about how an Association decides to 'live.' State law dictate what an Association may require of it's unit owners, and the By-Laws and Declarations are subject to state law. Robert's Rules applies not just to condo Associations, but also to the government, businesses, churches, etc. It's a civilized approach to conducting a meeting so things do not get out of hand. At least that's it's purpose. It's up to those in charge of the meeting to insist that the meeting is conducted in proper fashion. Robert's Rules is all about the meetings, and not about the day to day running of an Association.

I live in a small Missouri HOA - 19 units. We are self-governing and have a 3 member board. We want to amend/change our Bylaws. The Bylaws state we need 51% vote of unit owners and then it must be filed with Planning Director of our city and county. Can it be that "simple?"

We loosely go by Roberts Rules; however, I have read two different rules on how a president votes. One says vote must have "majority" and the other states president breaks "tie." We are five members plus one alternate (who does not vote if all are present). Recently there was a two-two split and prez voted affirmative to break the tie. There was follow up discussion, and the vote stood at 3-2 with president voting. 
 
Could someone explain how Roberts Rules has two different explanations for breaking tie votes (majority vote needed or president breaks tie). I also read an interpretation that president has no vote on a motion. 
 
THANKS!

Good luck getting compliance with points of order such as running the meeting that way. Many states, its impossible to make the board do anything according to the master deed and bylaws.

Condo owner...you are so right! The hardest thing to do is get the Board to run a proper meeting. Unfortunately, it's true of most Association meetings. Not sure why people run for office who are unwilling to just follow the rules. Must be a power trip!

You think THAT is bad!? What would you think if the bylaws required 3 to comprise the Board, yet two power-hungry losers (Do-nothing President and Treasurer (collecting money from the laundry unaccounted for, doing her/his wash for free) hire their buddy to be the "management company" and HE(non-owner)runs the meetings and they berate anyone who voices dissent! ! ! ! That is the he*% we are living through as money is obviously changing hands and we, the "lowly leftovers", pay extra for bad decisions, especially for repairs done by the same company the "manager" owns!?

I have come to the conclusion, after reading comment by Wizdawiz..."Only crooks need apply!!!" I've seen three management companies come and go, and if you put each of them in a large paper bag, pulled one out...you would think you pulled them all. They are nice the first month, and then revert back to the old habits they use with other properties they manage, thinking (you) won't notice the difference. At least with our current management company, one collects monthly association dues, and then uses lawn maintenance/snow removal  
companies HE OWNS, submitting his bid after opening up other bids. 
 
But getting back to Roberts Rules: Does Prez vote in a 2-2 tie only? Or if it is a 2-2 tie there is no majority, prez doesn't vote, and motion is defeated. Does anyone have an answer for this specific question. 
 
Thanks -- this is a very informative site.

Answering the president's voting question from Ro Ro Hart: 
 
According to the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order ("Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised," 10th edition, 2000), the president of a small (12 or fewer) board or committee can vote any time (p. 471); in other situations, the president can vote with everyone else if it is a ballot vote, and in all other cases can choose to vote if his vote would make a difference. 
 
Note that "in case of a tie" is a common way but inaccurate way to describe it. 
 
Most motions need a majority (more than half) affirmative votes to adopt the motion. If it is a tie, it lacks a majority, and is defeated. But before declaring it defeated, if the chair is in favor, the chair can vote for it and it passes with a majority. But if the chair is against it, he lets the tie vote stand; he doesn't vote against it because it is already defeated. 
 
Suppose the vote were 20 FOR and 19 AGAINST. Even though it is not a tie (at the moment), the chair who opposes this motion can vote against it and change the outcome from passing to failing. 
 
Similarly, if the chair's vote would make a difference in the passing or failing of a motion needing a two-thirds vote, he can vote, but he refrains from voting if his vote will not affect the outcome. (RONR pp. 392-393.) 
 
See the Myth for Meeting Tip #10 at http://sites.google.com/site/meetingtips/tips-1-10. 

@ Paul McClintock: Thank you for response. (Your) explanation now clarifies (my) misconception of differences between tie votes, etc.

This is interesting. We have 16 units with a volunteer 5 member Board and we have had the same Board members for years, because no one will come forward to vounteer to help out. The last thing we worry about is Robert's rules at a meeting....although we do try to abide by them....albeit loosely. Whenever someone complains...which is the only time we hear from the members, we tell them to get on the Board and/or come to the meetings and let their opinions be heard.

Our President and Board chairman was challenged on a point of order. i asked for an opinion from the parliamentarian and was advised that since we didn't have one, the Prez then appointed HIMSELF parliamentarian with no discussion or vote permitted. 
I know this is wrong, but I would greatly appreciate any remedies anyone can offer.

@Herb...my suggestion is to read comments from Paul McClintock above. And it would behoove every condo board have a desk copy for reference. (Not to be funny, but has anyone checked your financial statements lately?) You will need support from other owners who feel what the prez did was not in line with Roberts Rules. This is a good topic for board workshops.

does roberts rules of order address the posting of meetings for a condo association?