Condo Association Management Blog

Interesting that people purchase a condo with total disregard and consideration for their neighbors. 
 
Many/most high rise condos mandate that floor coverings have a soundproof quality to make sure their downstairs neighbors are not intruded upon.  
 
Why do you feel your lack of consideration for your neighbors and their comfort is OK? 
 
It is unfortunate that there are a few people with your lack of consideration that choose to live in a condo or HOA where everyone should work together for common enjoyment of their houses. You are the perfect example of an owner that should live in a single family home with no HOA. Perhaps this is a good time for you to sell your condo and go live by yourself out in the countryside. 
 
I'm SO glad you are not my neighbor

You should've read your governing documents. A lot of CC&Rs contain language prohibiting installation of hard surface flooring inside of units. 
 
We can debate weather it's a smart restriction or not (I happen to think it's not), but if it is in your docs then it can be enforced.  
 
While you are correct about owning the inside of your unit and being able to do what you want you also need to understand that you can't do anything that negatively affects your neighbors. 
 
For example your association may have restrictions on hours of noise or construction hours. It may even have restrictions on what color and what type of window covering you may install. While all of this is technically inside your unit, it all has affect on others. 
 
Unfortunately, if you installed your floors in violation of your governing docs the association may force you to remove them at your own expense. 
 
You can attempt to contact your board and see if they are willing to reconsider this limitation. It would most likely require an amendment to your CC&Rs and all owners approval. Did you install any type of sound protection under your floor? A better way to approach this issue for boards is to require a certain level of sound protection. For example one inch cork subflooring may provide an environment even quieter than carpet.

I suggest your read your condominium bylaws. Most contain a provision which relates to modification, renovation or improvement of units. Further most require you submit an application for making such changes and not to proceed until your application is approved. Check your bylaws and comnply.

Of course they can. For the very reason of what happened. You knowing broke the contract you agreed to when you bought your unit. Rugs on the floor may be decoratively intrusive; but it respects the peaceful rights of your beighbor. Why do you think you are right?

AMAZING! A man who thinks it's okay to drive his neighbors crazy with noise. Where do these people come from? Law or no law, regulation or no regulation, by-law or no by-law, DOCs or no DOCs, it's not right to annoy your neighbors.

What if the people below this guy started to cook things with noxious odors, and they cooked 24 hours a day? If the HOA has no rule regarding the type of food of that may be cooked would this guy be complaining? We used to think that rules were obnoxious, but now that wee live in a condo we understand the need for (1) reasonable neighbors and (2) reasonable rules. Tear up your floor, install cushioning, and put it back. By the way, you may have recourse to the floor installer who should have alerted you to the need for cushioning.  
Boris & Charlie.

JEFF ROSS: Your comment included the following phrase: "We can debate weather it's a smart restriction or not (I happen to think it's not),..." 
 
What reasons do you have for thinking that requiring cushioning is not a "smart restriction?"

Peter, sorry if I was't clear. I think requiring sound insulation is a smart restriction and should be put in place. I also think that prohibiting hard surface flooring outright is wrong or at least not smart. 
 
The sound insulation requirement should apply to everyone regardless of what floor they put in. A cheap carpet with the cheapest pad will be noisier than a hardwood floor with cork subflooring.

Wow - that original post sure garnered a lot of anger. I am on the Board of our condo here in MD - we have the same setup with 2-level townhouse-style and a "terrace level" unit underneath. And in our Bylaws it does specifically state : "The first floor of each townhouse unit is covered by wall to wall carpeting and padding which has been installed by the builder. This carpeting and padding must be kept in place until replaced. Any replacement carpeting and padding must be of equal quality from the standpoint of sound conditioning quality." Unfortunately, many owners don't think to check Bylaws for things they do inside their units. Understandable perhaps, but the rules is the rules. You should meet with the Board AND your downstairs neighbors to see what you can work out, short of removing the flooring and installing carpet and padding. Personally i doubt if you have an option but it never hurts to ask.

Buy some rugs to place in the walking areas.

Yes they do have that right and rightly so. My HOA does have restrictions on flooring if you have a unit below. You can install tile or wood flooring, BUT you must use the highest grade of padding for noise and it MUST be first approved by management. Now if they would also make owners with units below replace carpet padding that is so old that the carpet is on the floor so that the neighbor below can hear every step they take. People need to have more consideration for their neighbors. 
Glad I don't live below or around you.

Oh my, but aren't some of you a little hard on the guy? Yes, he should have read his declarations and followed them, but was it necessary to be rude to him about his question? Yes, living in a condo does take away from some residential freedoms that we have in a house, but the restrictions need to be clear in the declarations before jumping to the conclusion that he was wrong in doing this. Our condo declarations say nothing about the inside, except that homeowners are to keep them in good condition. That means different things to the various home owners. I agree with TW, be thoughtful of your neighbors and put a heavily cushioned carpet on the areas where you will walk, and thus cause noise for your neighbors. Condo living is different, but can work if you follow the declarations. Linda

Our docs require permission from the board for any original structural modifications. We are aggressive in enforcing our by-laws and will not hesitating in using the legal process for compliance at owners expense also I would recommend a Board member accompany the Association's attorney to all relevant court hearings as I do. This shows the court that the Association is interested in the out come of rulings.

JEFF ROSS: thanks for your clarification. Rationality prevails!  
 
Your HOA blog looks like another valuable information source.  
 
Peter Spencer

I've not read every post here so if I am being repetitive, excuse me. The answer is yes, they do have the right as long as it is stated in your CC&R's. Did you read them before you purchased there? We have had the identical issue in my complex and I'm glad we have that protection. Apparently the builders did not care about noise control when they built the units, thus everything above ground floor units can be heard. The noise can be horrendous. So to compensate, the builders included that rule into the CC&R's. Yes, people have actually had to take up their hard surface flooring (except for kitchens and bathrooms) and install carpeting. The rule is in the CC&R's, and meant to provide neighbors with the peace and quiet they deserve. This is a good example of the great need to read those rules prior to purchasing a condo.

Our condo docs also address the procedure needed to change floor coverings. Our community is made up of two-story buildings with 12 garages and four units on the 1st floor and 8 units on the second floor. An owner must submit a request for the floor modification to our Architectural Review Board for approval prior to any installation. Padding must meet or exceed the current standard as far as noise control goes. We also have a requirement for owners on the second floor to obtain written approval from the unit owner below them on the request prior to submitting it. Once approved, the request becomes part of the unit's file. (If it's for the second floor, a copy is also placed in the file for the ground floor unit who concurred with the modification.) I believe all units impacted by the approved modification have to disclose this fact upon sale of the unit. The architectural review process is one of the items we try to publicize (Facebook, newsletters and board meetings) as much as possible so owners won't be in the position where they have to return their flooring to its original state if they did not get the proper authorization to make the changes in the first place.

Every state has a Condominium Act. You can download a copy of your state's law which covers condominium living. In most such laws there is a section detailing the rights of a unit owner to modify,alter or improve his unit. So that right is present. The pertinent part of the bylaws specify how a unit owner must proceed to secure approval; for such from his Board of Directors or the Chairman of the covenants committee.

To those who commented. How rude can you be? This owner is seeking help. You don't have to be rude. All those who criticized this owner, just wait till you make a mistake. What comes around goes around.  
 
 
 
You must be new to living in an HOA and sorry to say but you have to learn the hard way. First and foremost go to the county recorders website and do a records search under your communities name. Search under the legal name of the HOA and the name of the community if they are different. Search for maps of common areas, maps of flood plains, maps of easements, maps of right of ways, maps for utilities, maps for anything and everything. Search for all versions and updates of bylaws, master declorations, Declaration of Horozontal Proprety Regime, Agreements, Modifications, Misc. recordings, articles of incorporation, Plats, etc. Take them and put them in this order Horozontal Property Regime this is the sub-declaration, Master declaration - trumps the sub. Articles of Incorporation - how the HOA is organized and gives board it's power, bylaws - details about annual meeting and procedures board members have to follow. Archtetural rules and general rules are obtained from the management company. Read every word know the definations of the words and use the maps as you read the documents. When you contact the management company for the rules get a copy of the last 12 months of minutes and read those. Make note of anything that is unclear and go to a board meeting and ask. Make the board put it in writting to you what it means. In most cases they don't know how they stand on it. Take some time for it to all soak in. Look at the big picture and use the maps. Sleep on anything confusing and don't let it upset you. There is a reason for it. Although these HOA things are a scheme and unfair in many cases just take a deep breath and sleep on it. It will make sense you may not like it but you will not be upset by it. Always remember when in doubt ask so know who your board members are and get it in writting.  
 
Yes, it is your home but there are liabilty issues that exist because you do not own the space between the floors, walls, ceiling, and elevators come into play as well as pipes. It's not a house and you need to be properly insured. If your a licensed and insured contractor your insurance may not be effective if your doing work on your own home.  
 
 
 
You'll get the hang of it. This is your first mistake it's just important that you learn from it. Don't let anyone try to provoke you into getting upset. If they want to be rude tell them your new to all this and are just trying to understand it all. Instead of being rude they could be more understanding and helpful. We are all human after all.

To those who think some of the comments are rude. Why do you think his comment elicited so much negativity? Perhaps because he seem oblivious (his last sentence) to the fact that he thought he should be able to do anything in his unit whether or not it bothered others. I have had several neighbors over the years with this same attitude and have lost a lot of peace and sleep because of it. People need to read through all the documents they are given whether you are a first time buyer or not. And when you live in units that share common walls/floors or the units are densely built, need to be considerate of them as well.

Tiny, I couldn't agree with you more... I was just getting ready to write a response to the criticism by the person calling us rude... Hard to understand people who attack others making valid points and refuse to get it. Obviously the person did not do their part in educating themselves on the rules of their complex. It's almost an "I didn't know that rule existed, therefore it doesn't count," mentality. Also this person defending the belief that making excessive noise, disturbing neighbors should not be a concern is beyond belief. The bottom line no matter what is read what you are getting yourself into period!! If that person sees us as rude and chooses to defend that mindset then they themselves are clueless and totally self serving.

I live in a second floor unit of a 2 story condo building. My CC&Rs state that an owner cannot install hard surface flooring where such flooring is not already installed (i.e., bathrooms and kitchen). I have terrible allergies and have lived with my carpeting since I bought the unit new 7 years ago. I fully understand the issue regarding why no further hard surface flooring but there have been advances in hard surface flooring and soundproofing. If I were to install something other than wall-to-wall carpeting, I would consider a 6 inch cork underlayment and a cork floor. I believe that this is very close if not identical to soundproofing provided by carpet. Does anyone have an opinion on that? Would it be worth petitioning the Board? I am trying to be mindful of my neighbor, who doesn't live here full time, while trying to help my severe allergies.  
Thanks.

Sentence in my previous comment should read "6mm cork underlayment." A 6 inch cork underlayment would be a sight to behold!

Jennifer, Yes, at least in my comp-lex soundproofing hard surface flooring is acceptable provided it is done by a specialist, inspected, and approved by the Board. It must provide an acceptable noise reduction range and is very expensive.

WE have a bylaw that no more than 20% of the upper condo can have hardwood. (kitchen/foyer). We have Gunite poured on the 2nd floor to dampen the sound but you can still hear thumping with either hardwood or carpet.

Always check the bylaws before you make any changes to the property - regardless of whether you agree with the constitution or not, this is part of living in a community. If you do not want to be a part of this, find a place to live without such restrictions.