Condo Association Management Blog

I would love to know how other associations handle this - I, too, have been plagued for almost 15 years by a neighbor who smokes - very frustrating. I would appreciate any replies.

Smoking is not against the law..I don't think you can tell an owner what they can and cant do in their unit.

We also have the same issue in our building -- the worst part is that it's renters who smoke! I'm a Trustee and we've been fighting this for some time. In our by-laws, it says that no smell emanating from one unit can infringe upon the common area or enter other units. We've used that language to fine the owner of these rental units. We're also going to put a discussion item on our annual meeting agenda to consider the possibility of becoming a smoke free building.  
 
A lot of states are enacting programs to make apartment buildings and condos smoke free so you may want to do a search for your state. We're in Massachusetts, and there have been lot of radio ads for these available programs recently.  
 
The worst part is that it doesn't have to be an issue -- we have other smokers (unit owners) in the building, and you would never know it because they have respect for the building. They either don't smoke in their unit or they smoke out the window with a fan running. I'm the last person who would want to infringe upon the rights of owners to do what they want in their units, but I draw the line when it's either illegal or it infringes upon MY rights as an owner! 
 
Good luck -- you aren't alone!

Interesting subject. So, you are concerned about smoke? If they drank a lot, would that concern you? What if they argued. What if they were hard of hearing and turned up the TV really loud? What if they cooked strange smelling food?  
 
This is all part of living in a close community. Not everyone is suited for Condo life. Perhaps a single family home out in the country with an acre or two would be best for you. Ever consider that others may not consider you to be the best neighbor because of your habits? Not everything can be covered by a law or rule. Sometimes we just need to mink our own business. Perhaps you just need to think about how you can live with the situation and get along or MOVE. Life is short. Enjoy!

You can't control what people do inside their private property. Some building try to use the 'smell' restrictions of CC&Rs to deal with it but if owners really want to fight it they can and they will win. 
 
If you pass an amendment making a building a smoke free building it will only effect new owners. All existing owners would have to be excluded because it materially changes their rigths.

So Pie & Lawrence, what 3th world countries do you live in ? 
Never heard of 2nd hand Smoking Health Danger !? 
Never heard of creating a Private Nuisance ? 
Never heard of infringing on the Life & Rights of others ?

I agree with Lawrence...I have several condos...just got back from Fl.....the cooking smell was there.....the Tv's I could hear....many neighbors are older and don't hear well....the roar of the boats from the intercostal at times woke me out of sleep.....I love the sun and I love my condo there.....smoking is not against the law...deal with it or move....

Lawrence Weiss wrote: "Not everything can be covered by a law or rule. Sometimes we just need to mink our own business. Perhaps you just need to think about how you can live with the situation and get along or MOVE. Life is short. Enjoy!" 
 
Most other annoyances in condo living do not affect neighbors' health. it's been shown that second hand smoke can be harmful to health. Thisis not just a matter of convenience. Some people have serious lung conditions that are affected. Some residents have babies and small children who shouldn't be exposed to smoke.  
 

Re: Comment by James Peterson. 
 
We live in the USA. We have the right to live where ever we please. We must obey the laws of the land. If we choose to live in a condo or HOA, we have to be the kind of person that can live by reasonable established rules and get along with each other. Not every like of ours becomes a RULE for ALL. People smoke, People are hard of hearing, People cook food that smells strange, People have other interesting habits that we don't like. So What? Mind your own business. If you dislike community life, live somewhere else. You just won't like everyone's habits and actions everywhere you live. What do you do at work and someone has a habit you don't like? What do you do at the movie theatre? You could consider getting an air cleaner to solve the smoking issue. I understand this issue can be taken care of for only $150 for one of these wonderful machines.  
 
Life is good!!

When smolking is made ILLEGAL, you may have a case. The scientific fact is that cars, SUVS and all other vehicles operatring on fossil fuel emit many more toxins than cigarettes do. You have NO case. The unit was purchased without any rules about smoking, you cannoty unscramble the egg!

Interesting comments on both sides of issue - problem is, that second hand smoke is a health hazard - I couldn't care less if they want to walk around maked as jay birds and swing from the ceilings - just don't kiil me w/their smoke

Ya'll sound like what we lovingly refer to as the "Condo Nazis". You live in a communal situation and people are different and are entitled to do as they please in the "sanctity of their own home". Shame on you for even considering this as a Bylaw!!!!

Check your state laws. We had the same problem. Also, look at your bylaws. I'm guessing there is something there about being a nuisance - that can be with noise and smells. Because of the second-hand smoke issue, you also have the health of everyone else at stake. The board can pass rules to require the smokers to have air cleaners (or other remedies) in their units to help control the smoke and smell. If the smell is bad - a reasonable person would be offended - you should be able to take some legal action. Check with a condo attorney to see what your options are.

Ted, unscrambling the egg is done all the time. If it weren't slavery woud still be legal. 
 
.....

The 2nd hand smoke argument is specious. If smoking could kill, why is it still legal to sell and a thriving worldwide enterprise. If the smokers p[urchased the condo when no by-laws stated they could not smoke, they cannot be ajudicated against now. (By the way, the originator's ventilation system must be awful to allow the transference of that smell!)

"c" is absolutely correct. Check your state and federal laws first then have the board create new rules regarding smoking that protects the health and rights of others. The smokers will whine a lot but after a few fines they will get the message. If the smoker's neighbors boiled Lutefisk and cabbage every night you bet they would want to enact some rules curtailing oders that affect their airspace. The arguements above are not valid. Ted Roberts asks "why is it still legal...". If the Feds make smoking illegal can you imagine the mobster run black market industry that would evolve? Keep it legal but smoke in an atmosphere where non-smokers are not affected. Good luck.

you have to mindful of the rights of both sides on this debate. but because in this instance smoking can have health hazzards for non-smokers it becomes a little tricky. it may be better for these peeps to smoke inside than on their lanai/deck for example where all the smoke could waft into neighbors units. in some states where smoking is now banned from commercial buildings there are moves to ban smoking in multi use residential buildings at the state level. so, just like commercial buildings, if you live in a condo you will have to go 20 feet away from the building to have a cigarette. this will allow smokers their right to smoke but also allow non-smokers not to have to breathe second hand smoke. untill this is passed you don't have many option, if you are a non-smoker, other to appeal to the smoker neighbor

It appears I opened a hornets nest when I asked this question. Thanks to everyone for their adivce. I guess my only response is to Lawrence Weiss and him taking me to task. No where in my post did I say this pertained to me, in fact I am the President of the HOA. I have one owner threatening to sue the HOA unless I can get the smoke stopped as they are alergic. I have the smokers threatening to sue the HOA if I try and make them stop. My responsibility is to ALL the homeowners and lawsuits are NOT good for the association. I am hoping for clear thinking options so I can try and resolve this dispute to the mutual satisfaction of both parties and the HOA. Anger and unwillingness to compromise is what has me in this mess to begin with and really has no place in these reponses.

LOUISE: One has nothing to do with the other! But...you appear to want to control what someone does legally, in their own home! THAT is WRONG.

Well. I'm not going to bash anyone here for their own opinions. Someone above said, "It's a free country" another said, "smoking isn't illegal". Both are right, on the other hand, there are people that already have health issues and must be concerned with those, they to are right. Basically, the coin has two sides and they are identical, a no-win issue. 
Having said this, I will tell you how our Condo handles this subject, WE DON"T GET INVOLVED in neighbor disputes of this ilk. What we do enforce is the normal rules we have written into our documents that coincide with law regarding peace and tranquility. No loud noises, no commercial businesses, no large vehicles (including std pick-ups), no motorcycles, no loud music or television that would disturb your immediate next door neighbor and so on. 
These are issues of standard decency and consideration. 
My wife smokes, I don't; my neighbor above has sever scent allergies and spends thousands of dollars to protect her health. Because I will not allow smoking in our unit, my wife is relegated to smoking outside, now my neighbor politely complained about this. As a result my wife has cut her smoking outside our unit drastically, but still smokes outside. The facts are that you own your own piece of the pie and you have certain rights along with that ownership. However in a civilized society, do what you can to consider your neighbors......on each side of the coin.

Comment to the original poster of this looooong thread - "If an occasional whiff of cigarette smoke is your greatest concern, you are truly a lucky person".  
 
However, it is true that second-hand smoke causes lung cancer in children.  
 
It also contributes to global warming, and can even erase the magnetic stripes on your credit cards if it gets too strong. There simply needs to be more laws.

If you're so concerned, stop using credit cards. 
 
I'm not a smoker and have lived in the same condo for 20 years. I have had many neighbors during that time and the least of my worries has been smoking. Lucky you if the only problem you have is "cigarette" smoke. I won't bore you with the details. 
 
I commiserate with you as to living in a condo and in this market it would be great to sell and move. However, it's a time to make the best of a bad situation. I, myself, have a had enough and want to move. However, I will not ask my condo board to change the rules and regulations to suit my lifestyle. I still maintain that  
 
A man's home is his castle!

I have received complaints over the years as regards cigarette smoke coming in from a vent to the adjoining unit.I was not quite sure how to handle the complaints because we do not have any rules that say a person cannot smoke in their own unit. Now as the years pass.I have come up with some ideas. Maybe getting an air purifier or smoking outside I also suggested using air freshener after smoking in showing consideration for the non smokers.The fact is that smoke does travel through the vents. But as was said in a previous post, there are no laws governing smoking but we can try to show consideration for those who don't smoke. It is like anything else I suppose. Loud music or loud parties can be annoying too.Mari

Heck, when I first moved into my condo twenty years ago we were allowed to have dogs. Two years later, no, because it caused a health and noise problem. However, dogs were "grandfathered" in. When the animal died you are not allowed to have another. 
 
Why not use this logic...once a smoker dies, don't allow another smoker to purchase.  
 
This whole discussion is crazy. Why do you think you are entitled to impose your preferences on others? Get a grip or get out!

UNTIL MY NEIGHBORS PAY MY BILLS, BUY MY CLOTHES AND PUT FOOD ON MY TABLE, I DARE ANY OF THEM TO TELL ME I CAN'T SMOKE IN MY OWN HOME! I AM 62 AND HAVE SMOKED FOR CLOSE TO 50 YEARS AND I AM NOT ABOUT TO QUIT BECAUSE MY NEIGHBORS TELL ME TO!! THEY ARE NOT MY PARENTS!!!

Rose, you rock. I totally agree with you.

We have resorted to installing electrical outlets in our entryway/foyers and will shortly be installing air cleaners. 
 
 
 
We have 2 foyers where people apparently smoke on their way into their units...  
 
 
 
It is FRUSTRATING and expensive but we have to maintain the foyers so that those selling have recourse.

The only Fire our Condo has ever had was from a Smoker who fell asleep with her beloved Cigarette. 
So is it your Right to burn down your Neighbor ? 
O sure, the Kitchen's can cause Fires due to Carelessness & Accidents, but we all need them to prepare Food to keep us living, Smoking only leads to an earlier Death. 
Sounds like some here need to attend an Anger Management class, could they be Smokers ? 

Somking is universally classified and recognized as a health hazard. If neithger your state condominium or HOA act nor your bylaws do not address the issue there is a solution. Organize the unit owners who do not weant to inhale second ghand smokew and asubmitt a petition to the Board of Directors asking them to conduct a vote of the council of unit owners to declare the entire building, includimng units themselves, to be a no smoking zone. You must include the unit because most multi unit dwellings are served by central air condition and heating systems which distribute contaminants to every nook and cranny of the buiklding. Thisd is not an issue over human freedoms. It is instead a right to not have your health jeopardized by actions of others. Go to it. We did this exact act in my 482 unit condominium in Maryland. Not one single heavy smoker moved out as a resultpthey simply complied.

Cigarette smoking odors do not travel between units in my building but rather from the unit into the corridor because the "seal" around each entry door is not very tight. We have a "positive pressure" ventilation system for the corridor which means a fan in the attic blows through a vent high up in the corridor. This positive pressure has enough "force" to keep cooking odors and smoking odors inside the unit so they do not seep into the corridor. My understanding is that this also has a fire prevention element to it for keeping fire smoke inside a unit rather than going into the corridor. All of this worked fine until a few years ago when the board decided it cost too much money to run the fan. They set it to run 12 hours on and 12 hours off via a timer. I eventually found an air quality engineer from a non-profit organization in Minnesota (MNCEE) to come and evaluate the system. Yes, he said, all of the mechanical parts were working fine, the system was designed to run 24/7, and that it did not make any sense to run it 12 hours on and 12 hours off. He suggested we buy a different timer so it could at least run 15 minutes out of each hour around the clock. The board rejected this expert advice, and, therefore, our corridors stink, stink, stink. Why anyone would want to live in a stinky building when they don't have to is beyond me. Rarely do you smell smoke when you walk into any building in Minnesota - not in government buildings, companies, Mom and Pop businesses, bars, restaurants, etc. We have units for sale in our building. I wonder if this might negatively affect some buyers. I know I would not buy a condo in a building that stinks like ours.

I love how people say "if you don't like it leave." Try selling a unit that smells like cigarette smoke. While I agree people have a right to do what they want in their homes, what about my rights in my home? I have a right to run my vacuum at 6 a.m. if I want or blast Beethoven's Fifth at 2 a.m. if I want. But I don't because I am a considerate neighbor. Can't say the same for some of the smokers. Geez, at least blow the smoke out a window or use a smokeless ashtray if you don't want to go outside. Similarly, as the smokers say "don't push YOUR preferences on me," the same sentiment bounces back to them. Community living is for the birds and condo associations are useless for important issues. Just hoping I can get out of my condo with a little profit. Never again.